Templar start is exceedingly narrow with the new tree (long, TL;DR at the bottom)

Hi guys,

As I understand it, the hybrid classes are intended to trade a bit of raw starting node power for flexibility and an advantageous starting position on the tree, right?

I feel that Templar fails to do this, largely because his start position is not actually advantageous for almost all builds.

Let me elaborate. It is perfectly conceivable for a Shadow or Duelist build to never travel particularly close to another class's start, right? I've seen plenty of builds that do this (although 1.3 Duelist might not do it so much, I'm not actually sure). Templar, though? It doesn't really happen. As a matter of course, spell-based Templar builds will wander over to Witch, and weapon-based Templar builds will almost all head down to Marauder (with a couple of possible exceptions I will touch on later). In the vast majority of cases this will involve taking one of the 'initial notables' (by which I mean the notables you can take with your 6th skill point) for those classes.



For all builds in which this is the case, the choice of class then comes down to either whether access to BOTH sets of starting nodes (meaning the paths of five nodes in between a class's start and the first notable; i.e. the nodes pictured above) without spending extra skill points is useful, or just to how good those starting nodes you have to take are.

The former never works out in the Templar's favour, mostly because his starting life and mana node is not very good. Where it is very relevant is for comparisons with Witch, and her infamous 40% mana regen node. Most caster builds will prefer Witch anyway as they would rather take 4% cast speed than 10% damage (an option Templar does not provide), but even for builds that want the damage (meaning that starting Templar just means you lose a negligible 2% damage), the easy access of Witch to that mana regen node means that you are basically always picking Witch here. For ES builds, meanwhile, the starting ES nodes of Witch trump the ES/armour start of Templar pretty laughably.

For weapon-based builds, Marauder wins out due to superior starting nodes. While Templar is all about elemental damage and Marauder is more of a physical kind of guy, the fact is that most elemental weapon damage you can get in this game scales with physical damage (don't worry, I haven't forgotten the exceptions). For these builds, Templar gives you 26% elemental damage (which doesn't affect the physical portion of your damage) and 30% melee damage (which does, but also weirdly shuns the flat ele ranged damage niche that Templar could fit into), compared to Marauder's 62% melee phys and the option of a 5% attack speed node. Marauder gives you numerically more damage, and his nodes also scale your damage better unless you're converting 100% of your damage to elemental. And a really good attack speed node too! Alternatively, if you want defense, Marauder gives you tons more life, more armour, and almost the same amount of life regen if you really want it, leaving Templar's only possible advantage as ES and mana regen, which you almost certainly don't care about at all.

What about builds that don't actually go to any other starts? To be honest, flat ele melee seems like the only one, and even some of those feel a bit shafted by the lack of nearby attack speed and will want to go say hi to Shadow (or start Shadow in the first place, since the start nodes are functionally identical). I could see an argument for a staff or mace build, but I'm 90% sure those builds would improve by going to Marauder. That said, it's a central assumption of this argument that these builds basically don't exist, so if I'm wrong, tell me and I'll shut up.

What all of the above means, as far as I can tell, is that of the Templar start nodes there is no reason to ever take the melee damage route unless you are a flat ele damage melee build, and no reason to take the spell damage or armour/ES routes ever under any circumstances.

Now we're left with the Templar's one unique starting path (well, mostly unique - Scion kinda does it): the life and mana regen nodes. These nodes are pretty good, but come attached to that slightly awkward starting flat life/mana node. That said, which builds will want then more than any of the other options on offer nearby? The obvious answer is summoners, and I do feel like Templar has found a niche here, as this start path seems to be the best for all life-based summoner builds. Then what? High defensive EB builds? It seems reasonable for MoM builds, certainly, although they can equally start Witch for that juicy 40% node and grab the Templar regen nodes from the opposite direction. The flat ele ranged builds that get shunned by Templar's damage start? Pretty sure they just continue to go with Shadow or Ranger, as they do now.

So, in conclusion:

-Two of Templar's start paths (spell damage and armour/ES) are completely useless and should never be pathed
-The melee damage path is a correct pick only for flat ele builds such as Elemental Hit, Dyadus, etc. (and maybe not even those, due to limited possibilites for getting attack speed)
-The mana regen path is a correct pick only for summoners and maybe very defensive EB builds (although I confess that I may be unaware of some other builds that want it)

Because the underlying 'problem' (the frequency of Templar builds heading to other classes' start areas) is not really that problematic, and certainly not sensibly fixable, it seems to me that the solution to this would be to improve those first few Templar starting nodes, because right now three out of the four possible paths seem almost strictly inferior to those offered by other classes. Maybe give them different effects, maybe let Templar do ranged, something like that. Right now, I feel like this tree change has mostly just been a Witch buff.

TL;DR

-Templar builds, unlike those of the other hybrid classes, almost always visit another class's starting area
-Templar's starting nodes are almost invariably worse than that other class's starting nodes
-So why not pick that other class instead of Templar?
-Therefore Templar start nodes need work

I agree there's some shabbiness at the root.

The defensive root should have the 5% life plus the token +life/mana.

Having Elemental Damage as his offensive root is only okay for spells and Explosive Arrow, not attacks. (Not unless they're doing some serious overhauling with some skills.) It's boring that it's identical to the Shadow's root - I'd much rather it be "Melee and Spell damage". "Elemental and Melee" would be functional, too.

Explosive Arrow Templars were kind of boned a little here. I think they can still be OK if they made the defensive route 0.4 stat points better.

Precision is the strongest +20/+20 stat notable on the tree. Certainly makes Practical Application look like a sack of dog doodoo.