Mechanics question: Do bosses have "reduced" or "less" effect of curses?

I saw on the wiki that it says "reduced", but I'm guessing the distinction wasn't relevant at the time. Now that we do have "increased effect of curses" (Curse on Hit and the Skittering Runes passive), it could make a big difference.

Map bosses have 60% reduced/less effect of curses, so normally a curse applies at 40% effectiveness.

If it's "reduced", then 20% increased curse effectiveness would bring it to 60% effectiveness against a map boss, which is a marginal increase of 50% (that is, the curse is doing 50% more than it would without the increased curse effect bonus).

If it's "less", then 20% increased curse effectiveness would only bring it to 48% effectiveness against a map boss, which is a marginal increase of 20%.

I expect that it should be "less", as that keeps the marginal increases the same regardless of enemy, but it would be a big deal for fighting bosses with builds that rely on curses.

my wild guess is that they have "reduced", but it in fact behave as "less", because it is their stat which cannot stack with your stats.. Similar how "increased damage taken on enemies" works

but I might be wrong.

edit: yes, testing proved me wrong :)

Hmm, I'm putting one chaos orb on attacker's 'increased effect' and target's 'reduced effect' stacking additively.

Because it could be said that 'Increased damage dealt' and 'Increased damage taken' do not apply to exactly the same thing, the first one affects inflicted damage and the second one affects damage that gets removed from target's buffers after mitigation is applied.

On the other hand, 'increased effect of auras' stacks additively with 'increased effect of buffs on you' of affected allies, bonuses are on different entities but they apply to exactly the same effect.

will be iteresting to see if this topic is going to attract Marks attention, because it is an interesting one, difficult to resolve... Unlike that spoiled brat´s thread about spell dmg and DoT from yesterday :)

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Ludvator wrote:

will be iteresting to see if this topic is going to attract Marks attention, because it is an interesting one, difficult to resolve... Unlike that spoiled brat´s thread about spell dmg and DoT from yesterday :)

That's what I'm hoping for, but no expectations :)

I've been thinking about a good way to test it, but it seems a little tough. Maybe on the Vaal Oversoul using a heavy-hitting weapon with life leech and vulnerability, comparing what life I get back would work...

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rezecib wrote:

I've been thinking about a good way to test it, but it seems a little tough. Maybe on the Vaal Oversoul using a heavy-hitting weapon with life leech and vulnerability, comparing what life I get back would work...

or temporal chains and have somemeone with stopwatch to measure how long does his whole lightning beam move (3 shots) take. It appear to be very consistent so ideal for testing

The best bet to test it would be using Poachers Mark. Poachers Mark has a Life on Hit effect, by simple skilling Vaal Pact you have no regeneration. So hitting the boss with one attack with 100 damage-effectiveness should give you exactly the right amount of HP back.

The issue though is that a LvL16 Poachers Mark only gives 10 Mana/Life on hit. So you would need to find a good value of curse-effects to use it.

A Q20-LvL16 Curse on Hit gives 15% and the nodes from the tree give 24%.

Based on this we would start with 139% Curse-Efficiency. If it is reduced we get 79% Curse-Efficiency, if it is less we get 55,6% Curse-Efficiency.

If it is rounded correctly we get 8 Life per Hit if it is reduced and 6 Life per Hit if it is less. Either way the difference should be big enough to see it.

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Emphasy wrote:

The best bet to test it would be using Poachers Mark. Poachers Mark has a Life on Hit effect, by simple skilling Vaal Pact you have no regeneration. So hitting the boss with one attack with 100 damage-effectiveness should give you exactly the right amount of HP back.

The issue though is that a LvL16 Poachers Mark only gives 10 Mana/Life on hit. So you would need to find a good value of curse-effects to use it.

A Q20-LvL16 Curse on Hit gives 15% and the nodes from the tree give 24%.

Based on this we would start with 139% Curse-Efficiency. If it is reduced we get 79% Curse-Efficiency, if it is less we get 55,6% Curse-Efficiency.

If it is rounded correctly we get 8 Life per Hit if it is reduced and 6 Life per Hit if it is less. Either way the difference should be big enough to see it.

Wow! This was such a great idea that I did it, and took a video to show it. It turns out bosses indeed have "reduced", rather than "less", which is great news for increased effect of curses!

I used a level 9 Poacher's Mark, which gives 7 life on hit, against the Vaal Oversoul, which as an act boss has 70% reduced effect of curses. I respecced into Skittering Runes on my flicker striker, who already has Vaal Pact, and removed all life leech gear and the one passive I had for it. Using a level 19 Curse On Hit with no quality, I had 8% increased effect of curses, plus 12% with Skittering Runes.

Without Skittering Runes, Poacher's Mark gave 2 life on hit. (1.08 - 0.7)*7 = 2.66, rounded down. If it were less, it would still be 2: 1.08*0.3*7 = 2.268, rounded down.

With Skittering Runes, Poacher's Mark gave 3 life on hit. (1.20 - 0.7)*7 = 3.5, rounded down. If it were less, it would have been 2: 1.20*0.3*7 = 2.52, rounded down.

This also means those effects are always rounded down :P

thanks for the test